Response to Deepak Chopras Argument That All We see is illusion

First, the post I agree with most definitely was Brian Josephson's, where he talks about turtles. His story about turtles is just one piece of what we are wrestling with, but it is a VERY important, very fundamental piece. Brian is urging all of us to deeply remember and engrave on our minds one of the fundamental limits of ANYTHING we humans (or even human souls or noospheres) can think we know, about the underlying laws of how our cosmos works: no matter how plausible a theory and no matter how good the fit, we can always imagine another level deeper, and we can never be CERTAIN that the best theory and level we know is the ultimate truth, There is no way that Deepak or jehovah or anyone else can rescue us from this fundamental limit. However, that does not prove that any of the theories which meets the usual tests of coherence and fit is FALSE, We cannot rule out the theory that eveyrthing which exists is just the emergent consequence of psi dot = i H psi being the ultimate law of everything, for some H. But we cannot rule out the many possibilities consistent with Deepak's assertion that we who post here are all fictional characters, and that the world of our experience is an "illusion," a surface level somehow of something deeper. But if so, what? If any human claims to escape this dilemma and know everything for sure, I conclude from long experience and logic with near 100% probability that such a human is just one more specimen of the many kinds of psychoneuroses one may find in the many handbooks of human mental... problems. We should never forget this, is we want to make what progress we can to becoming sane and somewhat more perspicacious. Likewise, there is a "chain of turtles" rising above us, possibilities for life beyond 100 billion years or light years. But Deepak is working hard to help support and "awaken" plain old human beings, as diverse as they are, in San Francisco to start, and that may be more important for us finite creatures than turtles at infinity. I have watched several of his videos. At times, I am reminded of Dr. Gupta on CNN, whom I respect quite deeply, who is centered on the challenge of helping other humans, a challenge deserving of full support. But: other, trickier issues have arisen here. I am not such a good communicator to the public as Deepak, in most cases, because I find it hard to confine myself to "life inside the box," inside the invisible walls or constraints of what Jung calls the spirit of the time." (His Red Book is also important to those of us who would want to help people of the 2020's, not so different from his experience in the 1920s, never to be forgotten.) Out of the box... Deepak mentioned being ejected from Sean's list. Actually, Yeshua was maybe next after Deepak, and I got attacked form Sean when I disagreed with that decision/ Sean expressed great loyalty both to Walter Freeman and to Ireland, and I mad eit VERY clear that I shared those affections, and that valuing the contributions of Yeshua and Deepak should be supported form that viewpoint. In the end, perhaps after I disagreed with Sarfatti on some points, he finally ejected me too (and Shiva). I made it clear I would not give up the right to contradict as gently as I could some extreme, grossly false personal allegations, but otherwise would still want to support as much as posisble the positive goals he had talked about. In the end, he replied by saying, in essence: Dont try to fool me. We know who you REALLY are." I was tempted to reply further by saying I wonder myself at some level who I really am (one of the greatest mysteries to myself), and would like to hear his version, but I did not want to create further negative energy and further insane anger. IN truth, I did not meditate too deeply on what his problem was. There was an obvious connection to Sarfatti and from there to Trump and Bannon (whom Sarfatti often claimed to represent, from there to THEIR theories about UFOs for which random circumstances sent me independent documents)/ But this month, if you do a google search on Qanon, more explanation emerges. Trump really has been working to create a new religion which worships him=Q as the one true God. Hell, Caesars really tried that before, and he has mimicked so many of the behavior patterns of Caesers I learned about through the years. I especially think about an ampitheater in Spain (in Caesarea I think) where Augustus arranged performances which sounded a lot like "making Rome great again and returning to great virtues (even as elected folks were held down) and where his beautiful daughter left a track which reminded me SO much of Ivanka... And so, Deepak, his followers want no room for strange gods, like the ones Yeshua might talk about. That is the tip of an iceberg, but enough for now here. Still, I have wondered. Basically, as I try to map out my own ignorance, the SET of possibilities... I still feel more than 50% confidence is what I call the noosphere species theory, the bare bones of which are spelled out in the complex papers I libk to at werbos.com/religions.htm. Forgive me -- the one true orginal nosphere species theory, a RELATIVE of De Chardin's and Verdansky's theory but distinctly different. That theory does NOT require that psi dot = i H psi; just as Darwin's theory is defined at a higher level of aggregation/form/pattern than the ultimate laws of physics are, this theory (and the neural network mathematics it assumes) allow for a RANGE of possibilities for the ultimate laws of physics, even including Einsteinian or some cosmic mind idealism possibilities. In many ways, the noosphere species theory (AND the neural network mathematics and theory of brain which I include in it) is much more relevant to OUR everyday human lives, and to the lives of folks in San Francisco, than theories about gluons. In that theory, we humans are all basically just like farmers in a small village we call our solar system. Yes, we know there is a very important larger cosmos out there beyond our solar system, but few of us live much of our lives beyond this solar system (other than looking at the sky). Our realm of action is HERE, even if we understand that the rest of it is a bigger deal. Making sense of THIS solar system, including its politics, noosphere and biological environment, is a top priority in what WE are called to make sense of and help with. So is Deepak's highest calling to help people awaken to our links to that noosphere, making the spiritual connections truly alive and MORE conscious? If so, it is very important that we all try to help, but that the message be enriched in ways which support more energy. Would Deepak be open minded enough to consider the possibility that the solar system and earth as we see them are basically not an illusion, expect to the extent that there is some distortion between what hits our retina and what reaches our brain, that we are macroscopic Schrodinger cats and that most of us do not see that spiritual or nosphere aspect as well as we could with more training? Are we hymans not exactky the "fictional characters" Deepak once referred to, but more like the characters in Zelazny's Amber series, characters whihch are similar to macroscopic Schrodinger cats (of varying probability strength)? (I do NOT mean to endorse the specific laws of everything implied in that series. No comment on that.) Yet, as a matter of fairness, if I ask him to be open minded, zhengqi demands that I do the same, by giving serious consideration to ONE possible embodiment of theories he has alluded to. Could it be that our mundane selves are... reflections of more real characters in another kind of universe (another turtle under our feet?)? One version of that is what I heard proposed by a Scotteich Rite Freemason from New Zealand many years ago. SIMPLIFYING his story, it would go like this: "We know all about the ordinary astral plane(s), how some levels are more labile and responsive to thoughts than others. They are ever more responsive to thought as you rise closer to higher levels, more truth. And yes, these are all just patterns within a kind of Great Brain. So why not consider the possibility that what WE call physical reality is not just another level of that astral system, a bit lower and less mutable so far, but possibly ready to change?" A high real yogin I once met (with an unmistakable huge aura) said: "As you evolve, it is not that you will reach higher places in astral travel, though that is part of it. Rather, the entire world around you, the apparent physical reality will start to change." Ever since Trump ran for his nomination, Ihave met more and more intelligent people who started to express the feeling that this kind of thing was happening, that the real world was becoming less real. So could it be that Trump is very sincerely trying to split our world in two, including one in which he becomes the god of a pocket world (there are many such out there!) and for all he cares the rest of us could all dissolve into goo? Ho worried should we be? Well, I give more probability to a different model of how things work. But there is a meta version of that last theory, in which OUR CONSTRUCTION of a different theory could be important to our protecting ourselves from Trump's theory. The idea that "this is just an illusion" would actually SUPPORT Trump's vision' And even if my more conservative theory is true, there is a lot of risk from the sheer craziness and incoherent spin out there in our "post covid, post IOT/AGI" world today. Just to make it more amusing (doesn't Deepak's view say it SHOULD be ever weirder?)... my best hope for human survival now includes a greater role for a woman named Kamala, which my wife says is an avatar or other name for Laskshmi, from San Francisco, even as my latest unexpected input comes from a guy named Vishnu who is serous concerned about disorder and war and actions needed to create a bit more order at some level. The shrine to the "Sleeping Vishnu" in Nepal comes with a very active warning to be more responsible and aware of our dreams. Added later: As Kamala may be closer to becoming President, I am reminded of what Krishna told Arjuna in a chariot in the sky in https://www.ancient.eu/Arjuna/ / He started with what Deepak said, but then adds a bit about dharma, which these extnded theories do offer. A rather important addition. I just hope that Kamala will go deeper and learn about the REAL climate changes and opportunities, so different form the poopular screaming matches n either side@